Affair Proof Your Marriage – Dave Carder Part 2


it begins to start out just altering
your mood its if you get an email you get a text you get a phone call you meet
somebody in the coffee shop at the workplace or something like that and it
begins to take on an emotional tone to it you begin to anticipate it look
forward to it and then you begin to actually try to grow it and develop it
and then it becomes kind of a third-stage thing where you actually
know you can go back to it and you’ll get the charge you’re looking for like a
great strong cup of coffee or something like that welcome to the focus on the family
broadcast helping families thrive John I’m really pleased to have Dave
back with us again I know this is a tough subject and I know there’s some
people in the audience they’re gonna say hey my spouse and I we have a great
relationship this is uncomfortable I get that but there are a lot of people in
the Christian community and certainly outside the Christian community that
struggle with attraction after you’re married and we want to make sure that
we’re equipping you with the ability to recognize the pattern to recognize the
danger of it before it costs you your marriage and your family the destruction
that we see heard focus from those bad choices in the heat of the moment would
break your heart and you hear about the impact on these children adults you know
we often rationalize it you know it’s just the way God made me what have you
but the impact on your kids you have got to back up and think about the lifelong
generational impact that you may cause and that sounds heavy and it is heavy
I’m not gonna walk around it David’s great to have you back thanks
for the education last time and it was really helpful you went through the
different areas that people can be entrapped in fact I think it’d be good
for those that didn’t catch it let’s just recap that a bit give us those
various types of Affairs that we covered briefly and then we’ll get moving well
class one is that one-night-stand you didn’t know the individual you’re maybe
away at a conference or something it’s private alcohols almost always involved
a lot of remorse and regret afterwards real common story about that second is
the entangle affair where it’s a friendship that develops gradually over
time eventually turned sexual you feel like you’ve found your soul mate
somebody understands you you’re willing to trash everything in your life to
maintain this relationship and it’s important you related that the Samson
and Delilah I think that’s great yeah they this is an illustration since
they could he could not stay away from that woman even though he knew she was
trying to kill him I mean it’s absurd sanity and when you begin to think of it
like that you you say yes that is crazy but people who watch these kind of
things happen they think their spouse is developed a mental illness I’ve heard
that a lot of times like who is this person and that’s entangled affair now
move to the next ok sexual addiction which is sexual compulsive ‘ti it’s not
a relationship issue at all it just is trying to satisfy or self-medicate some
anger hurt pain in your life it’s repeated sexual offenses Eli and his
sons were an illustration of that they did that God took their lives took Eli’s
life prematurely because he would not stop this process in Israel and it has
all kinds of repercussions today because of smartphones and ability to attach
this to pornography massage parlors strip clubs prostitutes it just all gets
all mixed up Dave in that context that’s one we hear a lot about yeah and
particularly it doesn’t always go this way but particularly men who are trapped
there yeah and when their wives find out or if their husbands have the courage to
begin to talk about it there can be a variety of reactions the most common
reaction is this break of trust that the spouse feels and it’s over yeah I can’t
stand this but the way you just described that this self-medicating
that’s really what’s going on oh it is it it’s good I think for a spouse to try
to dig a little deeper and understand more what’s at stake here yeah this is
not a marital issue that’s a couple often goes into their past or to a
therapist because they want to work on the marriage this is not a marital issue
this person would have done this no matter who they married okay and they
actually married this person hoping it would fix this pain in their life and it
didn’t a sex addict gets two years of marriage before he begins to act out
again her before she begins to act out yet because it’s insufficient it doesn’t
really deal with the issues so in this case before you do couples counseling
the individuals been acting now has to get sober
he needs some or she needs some individual help first
that’s a sexual addiction one yeah and then lastly is that reconnection yeah we
get that down or the add on a fair-weather yeah where the marriage
great you’re not planning on leaving here you’re both dedicated to it your
marriages but you have this one little activity or behavior or whatever it is
that you share together and it’s very legitimate but many times but it’s
during that connection you build this emotional friendship that’s way too
compulsive and and it actually does turn into a sexual affair many times not
always but many times it does then the last on last one is that emotional
attachment that you meet that reconnection where you go back to an old
girlfriend or boyfriend and you find them and it’s like 30 days and you’re
crazy in love with them again that’s the internet problem that’s the inner being
yeah people from your old high school class never forget stuff from
adolescence we talked about cars last time and everything else you just never
forget those old over Dave those are all the outside factors but we have internal
factors too that you point out in the book what role does our family of origin
play in these risks of infidelity as Christians we often think once we become
a Christian all the past is cut off its amputated
gets it’s under the blood it’s done away with but that’s just not true you bring
those influences with you into this adulthood life so just think about the
guy that grows up in a single-parent family mom’s busy trying to put food on
the table she doesn’t have a lot of time to sit down and watch TV with you she
might not be able to go to games that you participate in or anything else
because she she’s just trying to make it okay or maybe you are a young girl in
that family your dad abandons you what do you think of men as a result of that
kind of an experience sure so you bring these wounds with you from the family of
origin and there no family is perfect we often try I know I try to but you you do
bring these wounds from your family into this marital relation it might be a
commitment it might be a promise I’ll never put my kids through what I went
through type of things but you you bring them nevertheless to how those
practically attach them to sexual issues you know what I want to I know that
family of origin well I’m from a single parent okay I had just about every
family type you could live in okay there’s an awesome kid in the home
but but as a Christian when you’re making when you make that commitment to
the Lord how do you begin to sort those things out confront your past
acknowledge those weaknesses that’s right and all disability okay I’m gonna
try or I’m not going to do this this or that yeah describe that to give me a
practical tool give me the tool chest okay well all first-time adultery’s are
about two things comfort and distraction huh always always we always that’s what
we fish for in the first session where’s the comfort what was the need for
comfort comfort from what okay and what are you trying to turn away from what
are you trying to get out of what are you trying to leave I what kind of an
artificial world you trying to create that you didn’t have without this person
it’s all about comfort and distraction so you bring this emptiness and in the
marriage you begin to realize merit I got a great marriage I’ve been married
51 years but my wife and I we cannot satisfy every single need each of us
have it’s just impossible so you have to be aware of the deficits but I’ll tell
you the big ones are all about admiration and affirmation and affection
those three big A’s huh and marriages that you don’t supply some of those
needs we all need more affirmation than we can probably receive we all need
someone to admire us and look up to us and if those begin to decline you become
vulnerable to somebody you will pay attention to you you know Dave that is
really profound number one I’m thinking it opens my mind up to the wounded
spouse yeah and again here at focus we hear from a
lot of people but it’s let’s just put it in this context and again for everybody
it can be gender flip so don’t hear it always goes this way you don’t need to
let us know about that because I’d say the spirit in which I give this but the
wife that was sexually wounded as a teenage girl may be something terrible
happen to her but she wants to pick up those pieces and she may or may not have
talked about it with her in her courtship with her now-husband but
there’s a distance there there’s a physical inability to allow herself to
be intimate the husband knows it but you can’t figure out what’s going to be on
but it’s never talked about it’s never revealed so he just interprets that is
she’s cold yeah you know and she doesn’t want to enjoy this aspect of God’s
design for marriage that can lead to an affair too because the man is out
looking for that satisfaction doesn’t justify it but I’m just saying these are
kind of the fractures that occur in a relationship for all kinds of reasons
oh but describe a little more detail and how to approach that with the story I
just gave well let me just take that and go right with it because when this young
married couple starts having children this wife 50% of all the first-time
Affairs in America occur in pregnancy or the first year after delivery Wow okay
now the reason for that is this when that wife has this little baby and she’s
nursing that little baby or feeding that baby holding that baby the oxytocin just
goes crazy she just feels like she’s in love with the world everything is right
except now you know when guys have the highest levels of oxytocin when they
have sexual intercourse with someone who wants to be sexual with him
it has to be that common it has to be the combination masturbation
prostitution none of that measures up like that so here’s a little neglected
hubby out there sometimes the wife is sleep-deprived she’s consumed with the
kids she’s up late at night she might have some nausea when she’s pregnant she
you know you don’t feel like making love when you’re you’re sick to your stomach
right so all of that’s kind of changing and it’s a big adjustment for guys but
nobody talks about our premarital counseling nobody know and in I need to
make sure people are hearing that’s not an excuse to have an affair no it’s I
mean that no do not take that as legitimate reason just recognize you too
high-risk you’re in time it’s what you call in your book seasons of life yes
that fits into that category you’ve got to as a spouse whether you’re the
husband or the wife whatever’s happening you’ve got to be able to do the right
thing in God’s view and that is to love your spouse unconditionally and to get
through that period of time talk about it yeah you know the fact that you miss
that intimacy but that’s probably the best thing you can do is is talk that
through and make time make time even though you’re
struggling but maybe husband’s you need to pitch in some of that load so your
wife is a little more rested there you go
and can and can help meet some of the needs that you have in that regard I
mean this is all dicey business though oh it is and there’s no formula that
works for everybody but you do have to find your own and you have to really
make sure you work your way through this process and know what scene is normally
it’s not bad yeah Dave you talk also about different marriage styles that
have higher incidence of close calls you know those that lean into an emotional
affair and then it may be a physical affair if it goes that far what are
those characteristics of the weak marriages and I mean that as a profile
hmm almost a personality profile of the marriage describe that for the listen
well I’m going to go backwards so let’s take the empty nester this is a couple
who are married who have focused on their kids they do everything as a
family they don’t spend any money on the marriage so it’s a child centric home
exactly and they come into this marriage out of a broken family situations and
they often have promised themselves they’re gonna do it differently and
everything is spent on so they the kids leave home they sit down at the
breakfast table they look across the table to say who in the heck are you
okay they don’t even know each other okay 25 years have passed three or four
kids great parents but no marriage okay yeah and they are very very vulnerable
that’s why we see this huge rise in parents divorcing when kids go off to
call they call it the graying yeah divorce yeah it is yup empty nesters
yeah and then we have the intimacy avoidant
marriage that that marries it doesn’t stay very close we called the
windshield-wiper syndrome you know they just moved the same distance back and
forth across the glass very effective etc but they don’t move towards each
other they can’t for all kinds of reasons
so anta maseeh avoidant you don’t talk about anything personal it’s all
external etc then we have the conflict avoidant marriage and this a marriage is
very appealing to Christians they feel like this is the highest form of
marriage no conflict it doesn’t work that way you’ve got different genes
different family of origins dif life experiences of course there’s
differences and there should be mild at least mild conflict on some things maybe
some people will say we’ve never argued Dave I know you’ve never had a conflict
in our 40-year marriage we call that dial tone okay that’s another one yeah
dial tone describe that yeah well that is the conflict avoidant marriage where
it’s just no ups and downs no differences tolerate we all do
everything together everybody knows the dance step everybody
knows the dance yeah and you just do it you do it can people be happy that way
are you’re saying they’re vulnerable well they are vulnerable too and this is
a great illustration I think somebody told me this one time it’s like the Dark
Side of the Moon nobody’s ever been to the Dark Side of the mind but when you
are in that kind of a marriage there is another side of you that your spouse is
never touched and that person will touch that side and it’s like you suddenly
awakened you feel like oh my gosh this person understands me I never knew I
this is a soulmate right that’s when you go to the art class hiking class yeah
whatever in Miami and that’s a danger spot you need to be aware of now Dave we
have really hit three-quarters of the two-day broadcast we have I hope
illuminated the trap yeah I want to turn now let’s talk about some solutions and
one of them is seeking forgiveness and why that is key and how does that play
out in your experience counseling these couples
yeah well forgiveness is the core of it even all the secular people who work in
this field that my colleagues and such we all agree that forgiveness is a key
and everybody has some idea forgiveness even Disney has an idea of forgiveness
let it go you know so you have to do that but the thing when most couples get
stuck in recovery and they aren’t able to really restore the marriage it’s one
or two things always almost always one it’s an incomplete forgiveness process
or two they don’t have enough good history to fall back on to save a
marriage in other words it’s a bad marriage from the beginning and this
just compounds the badness but let’s talk about forgiveness none of us are
perfect spouses and we’ve all injured the marriage over time and that’s the
first level of forgiveness you have to work to
what you’ve contributed to the deterioration of the marriage over time
apart from the sexual issues and both spouses need to go through that both do
then the second part of the forgiveness process has to do with the actual
betrayal you know Dave seriously talked to that man particularly and again it
could the shoe could be on the other foot I get that but speak to that person
who is only half heartedly and putting forgiveness forward okay that’s a great
lead I love that your spouse that you betrayed has the right to know anything
and everything they want to know about your betrayal if you want respect you
want their respect and you want their trust then they got to feel like you
don’t hold any secrets Dave let me let me tease this out yeah because in the
word you know the Lord says he hates divorce yeah then he gives a way out
yeah and this is the one way yeah I would think safety rationale is also if
you have abuse occurring physical abuse abandonment it can be degraded yeah but
those are also in that’s and that in that arena yeah however God is very
specific in his scripture in his word that when it comes to adultery and
betrayal and infidelity this is the reason that you can divorce talk about
God’s heart in that regard go a little deeper that way forget the the
practicality for a minute just talk about what God is experiencing when he
sees his children doing this Oh marriage is an illustration of God the Father and
Israel Jesus and the church I mean it’s it’s the metaphor it is it is and it
never is a lot of hard work it’s always presented in a joyous attachment
fellowship connection it’s not what you’re grinding it out every day you
know type of thing and there are some marriages who do that that practice that
kind of so I don’t think God’s really pleased with those of you that but I do
think people can change those kind of behaviors but the one thing that
betrayed spouse Jim has to get that betrayed spouse has to feel like
her husband or his wife gets what they did to me that’s why we do the extended
forgiveness letters that’s where that healing starts that’s where the trade
spouse feels there I’m yeah yeah that they’re not just gaming me yeah that’s
right they’re not playing yeah that’s right because I’ve been played so far
that’s right I got I get that I can understand that sense of betrayal Dave
you mentioned the history that if a marriage has been troubled from the
beginning that has no history to build or rebuild if there’s been a break of
trust let’s assume and I would want you to describe a healthier history that
something negative has happened that betrayal that breaking of trust
what can couples do to look back on the history and begin to build you mentioned
that in the book kind of going back to your history together to find the good
things good boulders that can lay a new foundation for your relationship
describe those boulders what do they look like well it might be a little
surprising to you but there’s great research out there to indicate that if
20% you don’t need a whole lot of great history but if just 20% of your marital
history is ranked highly by both of you simultaneous in the same time zone and
continuous not broken by bad periods you have better than a 92% chance of saving
your marriage after adultery in sexual betrayal Wow that’s incredibly 2% so you
can go back to those good times good drive how you do that in your counseling
how do you get them to remember them is there in the fifth grade right now yeah
yeah I remember when we used to laugh a lot so what I’m not laughing now yeah
exactly right you got it okay so what one of the exercises we do in the
reattachment process after the forgiveness letter of course is to each
of you make a list of your eight best experiences they can happen while you’re
dating but it cannot include other couples it cannot include children it
cannot include your wedding so best experiences together together just the
two of you okay she builds a list he builds with us most couples that really
are inclined to save their marriage they will have somewhere between three and
five so let’s say they have four she gets
five he gets six she gets seven he gets a those are your eighth greatest
experiences those are what sealed you together those are what compelled you to
stay together and you need to go back and repeat those I tell my couples when
you leave me in the first 18 months after you say goodbye to me I want you
to practice every one of those because those are what you did best and you got
in trouble by stopping what you do best you quit doing what you do you know Dave
the crazy thing when you see this over and over again and you have described
this in such great detail and the patterns of human behavior it’s got to
be frustrating that we step in the same puddle all the time you’ve got to go Wow
why does this happen Lord why do us as human beings why are we so if I could
say it why are we so stupid because predictability is always a higher value
than pain-free living huh so if you can project what’s going to happen even if
it’s hurtful you’ll do it rather than rain healthier thing that’s right
because you don’t think about the outcome of that one what are some of the
other ways we can protect our marriages we’ve hit a few but give me a rapid rate
one so get yourself a little notebook with a wire spiral across the top she
gets one he gets one and every day the research is based on 30 straight days
each day every day for 30 straight days you can’t work ahead you you wake up in
the morning and you look for something you like about your spouse and then you
write two or three sentences in your little book why you like it and that
night before you go to bed while you’re laying in bed looking up at the ceiling
each of you thank God for that quality in your spouse it could be simple
something maybe he takes a shower today that’s really nice okay start basis yeah
one of the things I did when first time my wife and I did this my wife has a
great smile and I said I like seeing your smile when I first come home at
night I like seeing you smile at me when our eyes meet across the crowd a room
and I like seeing you smile at me if we better be disagreement so I prayed that
prayer dear God thank you for giving my wife such a great smile out loud howl
out so she can hear she can hear it and you don’t tell each other until at night
so every for 30 days you know your spouse is looking watching figuring out
what they about you I love that that right there
is a good good place to scrap like away yeah and Dave this has been so wonderful
so insightful really and I I hope everyone has benefited i I can’t imagine
that if you have thought about these things or maybe you’re in that stage of
either emotional attachment or any of the things that Dave has described these
last couple of days this is the greatest help for you right now this is the
safety line coming out to you to say don’t jump in that that pool or that
ocean of affairs don’t do it stay on the ship of your marriage where you can
whether these things and Dave against so good and so insightful thank you so much
for that hey Dave given the cultural stuff that’s going on we’re gonna say
goodbye right now but let’s carry this conversation online and folks can come
and listen in because I want to talk very directly about what’s happening the
culture those areas of power like the media Hollywood politicians that are
falling left and right and over the last few months let’s have a little more
discussion about what’s going on there can we do it I’d love to all right hey
I’m John fuller and thanks for watching get more info about focus over here and
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