Should Progressives Leave Democratic Party?


we are taking your calls at 6­17­8­30, 47­50. let’s 
go next to our collar, from the 626 area code, who’s calling today, from 626 a David for some Conn. but I love your show, thank you.
So look, the democratic establishment will stop at nothing to make sure that Bertie Sanders is not phenomena, disgusting to watch. And it’s big reported that even though braces not officially 
endorsing a but he called PODGE to drop out and endorse to bin. He may have even called that or to to the same thing. Where is it either? Where is that being reported?
I heard from a rebel age to… Okay, I don’t know if he is in a… But I see, listen to, here’s the thing, here’s the thing, you’re 
absolutely right, and This is how politics works, this is not super delegates, this is the DNC. 03/06/20  Page 8 of 17
davidpakmanshow­2020­03­06­commercialfree realizing, “Hey we probably have a coalition here. Bernie probably has some sealing. The pundits 
were very wrong about what that ceiling was they said it was 15­20.If I bring out the 30 okay, but this is how politics works, this is the game. They played it, and they are winning and it sucks. And 
the progressive movement needs to realize that when we talk about unilateral disarmament we don’t take pack money, and if we don’t do this, and we don’t do that in Bubba, blah, blah, but at a certain 
point, there’s a line at which… Well, then you’re gonna lose and that is going to prohibit you from then getting into a position to make the change that you want the I do believe that we, progressives, 
need to take a lesson from this though, which is a very specific one, which is we’re an online media. A lot of people who watch the show love Bernie. A lot of people who follow me on Twitter love 
burning a lot of people on our subreddit love Bernie. This is not representative of the Democratic Party at large it’s just not right, because when you 
combine the realities in a lot of these different states, you realize a lot of people just didn’t wanna vote. For Bernie, that’s it, yes, of course, the DNC orchestrated the timing of this. There’s no doubt, 
if it had been a two­candidate race from the beginning we might have had different results all along but we also shouldn’t assume that if you just explain Bernie’s positions to people, everyone will 
wanna vote for him. There’s people who just don’t wanna vote for Bernie and in the eulogy, if there is one which we’re not doing right now, we’ll have to talk about the way Bernie’s campaign was 
framed. democratic socialism will have to talk about all of these different things and discuss the effect they had. But yeah, this is just the reality. And progressives we, progressives, have to face it.
So I guess my question is, what do you think? Okay, so the Democrats nominate Jo by in Joliet, in a last leg, ’cause he’s grip.
What do you think of the progressives, the progressives leaving just completely abandoning the Democratic Party and creating their own party good estate at as a, that theocratic party. It could 
happen, but I wanna throw something else out. About a month and a half ago, I gave out the four ways that this could go the four ways that could 
go, or Bernie nominated and becomes President, Bernie nominated and loses to Trump bye and nominated and becomes President, by denominated and loses to Trump. And when I did that story, I
said, If you take everything into consideration, if you take the Senate balance into consideration if you take all these different things long­term, the best outcome for the progressive movement might 
be that bin is nominated and loses. Now, I won’t redo the analysis now because so many of my audience members have already heard it. It’s a long­term plan and it’s difficult but it may not be the 
worst thing for the Progressive Movement and I explain why in that segment. Yeah, Agrawal, thank you do, but I appreciate you answering my call. Alright, my pleasure, thank 
you so much for calling in.

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Comments

  1. Here is a little politics 101, you will never get anything if you don't occupy a position of strength. We must turn this into a battle of wills that might be painful but it is needed. The Democratic party is not even center left anymore, that's in action not word. If we do not fracture this party now we will be destroying any hope for the future.

  2. Do you THINK? ….They have screwed Bernie up and down for 8 years….He'd be better running as an independent…..

  3. I'm a senior and support Bernie Sanders. Progressives need to start their own party democrats did voter suppression in Texas. They closed 750 polling stations in predominately black and Mexican counties.

  4. WHEN the Democratic Party forces a SENILE Warmongering Banskter Corporate Dem on us, to lose to Trump
    …after forcing a HATED Warmongering Banskter Corporate Dem on us, to lose to Trump,
    It'll be clear that there never was a Democratic Party to leave.
    Covering up a SENILE candidate in this fight is unconscionable proof that they'd prefer 4 years of whining about and fundraising off of Trump to the outside chance that Bernie raises taxes on their donors and ends their grift. A party that would prefer more Trump over Bernie is a party that will NEVER make the changes that the American people need so it's not worth supporting.
    I for one will unregister and NEVER support their shills at any level of elections.

  5. Fuck the regressive movement. Voted for obama twice. And hilary. But id rather have trump then bolshevik bernie. 100%…

  6. Yeah I think it's a better idea to try the "I told you so" argument. If we're right Biden will lose and the Dems will have no other choice but to fall in line or we leave the party for ever.

  7. We have two supreme court seats on the ballot. You are willing to give Trump the chance to fill those seats for the next 40 years just because you couldn't have an 80 year old man who could die on us within the next two years into office? How does that work for you for a "long term"? The "progressives" are dumber than I thought.

  8. I prefer Bernie, but Blue all the way. Trump needs to go.

    After this election its time to push for a green party revival. Every year the push the fear vote. Democrats are not green or progressive they have not done enough.

    Since 2000 all we have seen how they destroyed Nader and how they treat AOC and Bernie. We need to split.

  9. Nah, just the far-left fucking imbeciles whose panties are in a giant wad over ideological litmus and purity tests over who they perceive can be called a "progressive." By all means, get the fuck out. Let us know that works out for you imbeciles.

  10. No I think not. New possibility of a union with Sanders/Biden. This could end this division in the Dem. Party. Is this so damn hard to understand??!!

  11. He was supposed to bring new ppl in and it didn’t happen he had a ceiling period he need kids to get off their asses and they failed him

  12. David, I really enjoy your show and agree with most of your
    views and I think you’re being very pragmatic about the progressive movement at
    this time. In my opinion what's hurting Bernie more than anything is the word SOCIALIST
    in his self-description There are many, particularly boomers of which I’m one
    and older voters that hear that word and almost automatically tune out. So, Bernie
    is shooting himself in the foot in terms of winning broad support for his policies
    and agenda. Now I’m not a virulent Biden fan either, I’m registered unaffiliated
    and here in NY I can’t even vote in a primary without a party affiliation declaration
    on my voter registration card.

    The way I see it right now. We liberals, progressive and yes
    even mainstream Democrats have one goal and one goal only. We must defeat Trump,
    and the only way I see that happening is to get as many liberal’s, progressives
    and democrats behind one candidate as we can and fully support that candidate.
    I just don’t see that happening with Bernie at this time. And dividing our side of the electorate will almost surely give Trump that win.

    Don’t get me wrong I will support anyone on the left that
    wins the nomination and I will do it with all my effort. Frankly, I would vote
    for the local dog catcher so long as his name is not Trump.

    The social experiment that Bernie proposes needs to just wait
    until the country is safe from this tyrant that we have now. Otherwise, many of
    us may not survive long enough to see our country brought back to some semblance
    of normal.

    Keep up the good work.

  13. Take it from the UK where we went through this with Jeremy Corbyn, even if Bernie wins you can absolutely never trust the "centrist" pro-corporate left. They will ALWAYS fuck you over. When it comes down to the wire they will side with the right.

  14. He's right…some people just think Bernie's too out there. For example, when my daughter and I were filling out our mailing ballots, she noticed me voting for Bernie…I asked her how come she wasn't voting for Bernie..she said, "she's not a big Trump lover, but Bernie was just too much to handle." She's 31.

  15. I never thought I would think this. But it may be time. I've been in Canada, marraige—noyhing political, for over a decade. The NDP is the progressive party here. If I voted here, I would vote NDP. US is getting closer to more than two parties I think. Tea Party/ Alt Right and progressives split the he two main parties. The DNC and GOP could join as centrist, traditional party. The other two wings would form growing populist left and right bases. This could be more representative of voter sentiment. And change election process. Shorter.

  16. Lets see. Trump made his case to the republican base and they fell in love. Democrats, being a liberal amd centrist party has heard Bernie's case twice and aren't voting for him. That it

  17. The progressive movement wouldn't survive a split but it would weaken the party enough to guarantee Republican dominance for decades.

    You don't even have to wonder. If Trump gets re-elected he finishes stacking the Supreme Court and all progressive legislation gets struck down for the next 40 years

  18. This is part of Trump's reelection strategy, to encourage conspiracy theories and stoke a sense of alienation in Bernie voters. The good news is that we're more similar than we are different, and certainly the progressive platform exists on a different planet from GOP values. The GOP is reducing corporate taxes to line the pockets of the rich and drain national revenue in order to set up an excuse for doing away with Social Security benefits and Medicare coverage. Getting them out of power now is imperative for this and so many other reasons (climate change, immigration).

  19. Yes Progressive should leave the democratic party. The democratic party is only democratic in name. They’ve moved so far to the right there center at best. And it would seem both parties are continuing to move further and further right (by making use of social engineering techniques like the Overton window).

  20. ABSOLUTELY. We're already 40 years late for it. Side note – never thought I'd hear Dave so defeatist. Bernie is gonne win.

  21. I just don't know if the Progressives have enough power and support to be able to break through the political boundaries on a different ticket, other than Republican or Democratic. There hasn't been a different party elected to POTUS, than either of those, since 1864 (if you count the National Union as different). Otherwise, you have to go back farther to the Whigs.

  22. lol. SEeing the comments here is saddening. It's why America's far-left is a joke. In 2016 the DNC had the most progressive platform in history. And yet the far-left preferred to sabotage Hillary after the primary.

    The result? We now have a Trump federal judiciary with veto power over all progressive legislation and executive orders for a generation. For a generation!

    Hillary vowed to put judges on SCOTUS that would overturn Citizens United, protect Roe and gay marriage. Now we have the opposite- BEcause of 77,000 votes spread over WI, MI, and PA.

    The narrative that the DNC is just as bad as the GOP is disgusting. And shows how detached from reality America's far-left is. Instead of making gradual, steady progress pulling the DNC toward the left, they prefer to burn it down and put the fully fascistic GOP in power.

    Simply amazing! What does the far-left want? 2 more right-wing anti-minority fascists on the SCOTUS? That's what they're going to get if they continue their sabotage and false narrative about both parties being just the same.

  23. I made a comment that was rather lengthy to a previous DP post in which I pulled no punches in condemning the DNC for sucker punching Bernie on the eve of Super Tuesday through a calculated and vicious conspiracy that involved Klobuchar, Pete the Cheat, Beto O’Rourke and Bloomberg a couple days later, withdrawing from the race and endorsing cognitively impaired Joe Biden. The DNC showed clearly what a corporatist Wolf in sheep’s clothing it is. I could almost see it coming after Tom Steyer spent a tsunami of $ in S.Carolina in an effort to get S.C. to vote for Biden.Steyer had no chance in the race &knew it so, after pouring $ into S.C. he dropped out of the race. The DNC conspiracy made it clear to me that the best solution would be for the progressives to separate themselves from the Dems and form their own party. IMO,it’s a no brainer.

  24. I didn't see the segment but Biden running and losing does NOT help Progressives long-term.

    It helps galvanize the base short-term and probably leads to some primarying of incumbents and more progressives voted into office in the future but they'd be entering politics when the judiciary is fully stacked against Progressives

    If Trump gets another 127 lifetime appointments at the federal level for judges and another 2 Supreme Court picks then Republicans will have a stranglehold on the courts and that's the end of progressive legislation

  25. Democrats (just like Republicans) are bought off by powerful special interests which include but are not limited to: the fossil fuel industry, the insurance industry, big pharma, the entertainment industry, military industrial complex, prison industrial complex, and big banks. They will support mass surveillance policies and wiretapping, usurpation of due process (NDAA), censorship, the suppression of protesters (just see what happened to the occupy protests), starting endless Wars to create a favorable investment climate for multinational corporations, etc. They are not on the side of the people. I see no reason to be a part of the so called "democratic" party. They are authoritarian corporatists.

  26. AS far-left icon Noam Chomsky reminds the burn-it-all-down anarchistic wing of the far-left: "The lesser of two evils really is less evil. Liberals who refused to vote for Clinton in the general election made a very bad mistake." Chomsky is a political realist unlike the many infantile, narcissistic BErnie or Busters commenting here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/noam-chomsky-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-a7438526.html

  27. If you split, the progressives will never get anything done. The republicans will have control of all 3 branches in perpetuity and many people will suffer because of that.

  28. Yes. Yes, a thousand times yes. We should.

    If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, the next-best case is that Trump wins the general with enough votes in Green to have given it to Biden if they had voted democrat instead. Then the house and senate both go blue in the midterms. Trump is neutered and the message gets across that we NEED a progressive ticket in 2024. It will hurt but we made it this far, we can handle another 4 years.

  29. AS you can see from the comments here, the far-left is playing right into Putin's hands. It's the way right-wing fascist governments come into power. Far-left and center left refuse to unite to fight the real enemy–the fascist right. The DNC 2016 platform was the most progressive in history. Yet the far-left cannot accept incremental change. They want it all and they want it now. Not going to happen in the US. The far-left needs to continue to work within the DNC to pull it farther to the left. Otherwise, they're going to wind up with a full-on fascistic right-wing theocracy for a generation.

  30. I'm a progressive that left the democrats 15 yrs ago. I am registered as non partisan.
    However the DNC makes me temporarily re- register to democrat if i want to vote for a democratic candidate and then i have to re- register again for my non partisan affiliation.
    Why the hell can't American citizens just simply vote for what ever the hell they want to vote for without LABELS? Division personified or what?

  31. Without the Democratic party the Progressives have nowhere to go……progressives alone would find that they would go the way of the passenger pigeon, the great auk, or simply be a "party" that ain't no party. Alone, progressives cannot garner enough votes to stand against either major party. In a perfect world there would be no "Parties" and we could elect candidates on merit/ideas. I'm also for public funding of campaigns(get the $ out of politics), and term limits. That's my perfect world. If we each took it upon ourselves to "shoot" a lawyer and a lobbyist each week…..things could change quickly….! LOL

  32. Bernie made the mistake of calling himself a Democratic Socialism, when he is actually a Social Democrat. Social Democrats are the mainstream in most of western democractic countries. It´s not far left but I guess is to much for the USA. I believe this Social Democrat movement has a tendency to grow due to globalization. Bernie Sanders campaign is the only one people all over the world can identify with.

  33. Fracturing the left into this group of arbitrary values that call themselves progressives and everyone else is, ironically, the most anti-progressive thing that anyone can do since it works against the goals of the movement.. The success story of politically progressive countries has always been where the left unites.

  34. I'm in Kentucky which is a closed primary and is the reason I registered in the Democratic Party. If Biden wins primary or is given to Biden I will go Independent.

  35. Yeah, because two corrupt parties beholden to the rich vs the constituents is not what America should be. A third er fourth party (because there is the green party too) gives people the choice that so many claim to want. I know I have no interest in the democratic or Republican parties, anyway.

  36. I'll be leaving the Democratic Party after voting for Bernie on April 28. I've given up on hoping for reform until the fucking Boomers are dead, since getting young voters to turn out is futile without making voting mandatory. Have fun, Democrats!

  37. How about start calling yourselves oppressives ,because if you guys ever take control that's what all you'll do .

  38. That's why I say let's just vote republican and let them destroy this world quicker. Rather than a slow death by the Democratic party

  39. STOP TALKING! The race is not over. Please stop talking about it in the past tense and discouraging people from voting!

  40. These people need to wake up. We lost fair and square;, young voters did not turn out. It's time to rethink and restrategize.
    Although I do like the idea of a "Progressive Party" sometime in the future.

  41. Honestly I worry that progressives need to just leave America. It's clear that not just the entire conservative wing of America, but also half the liberal wing, will never want us. I know if I had a job offer in Canada or England I'd strongly consider taking it right now.

  42. Progressives should leave the Democrat party and form their own party. If the DNC doesn't want to be the permanent losing party, then they will be forced left in order to form a coalition with the new Progressive party where they agree to run a single candidate against Trump.
    Eventually the DINO's will join the Republicans and a true progressive party will emerge from the ashes of the DNC

  43. No. They will never be big enough. Again progressives, stick with a Democratic party. You'll get at least some of the things we agree on. Which is better than nothing!

  44. I am a Bernie supporter. I realize that his chances are slim at this point. I also know Biden is a statute. He will not change policy no matter what is thrown at him. I do believe that anything including a 60 day old dog turd will be better, smarter, more capable, and have more respect for the office of the President of These United States, than trumpy.
    So if my choices are trumpy, or Biden, or third party ( 0% chance of gaining office ), or not voting ( akin to voting for trumpy ) I will once again take the lesser evil.
    Bernie's fatal mistake, in my opinion, was to label himself with the socialist tag. The undereducated, and the uneducated see that word as the evil lurking in the darkness. Those with decent education, and even the highly educated, think that if there is a socialist leading the government, they will then be forced to forfeit all thier wealth and possessions in support of the greater good. Have a debate with a well educated person on that topic. They will, for the most part express the same fears as those with no education, they will just do it with a better command of the language.
    Our Fedral goverment is huge and grinds like tectonic plates, forward very slowly.
    So with these thoughts in mind, it is my opinion that the progressive movement needs to attack the problem in the same way, very slowly. I wish Bernie would get to the Whitehouse. I don't think he would get the majority of his policy ideas through. I do think he would set a foundation for other progressive leaders, and help reset the mind set of the population. We are correct the progressive ideas are better, so NEVER GIVE UP NEVER BACK DOWN. A new path will be found. Please do not pout or let your anger be the thing that allows trumpy to remain out of prison, and in the Whitehouse. Like I said before, I'd vote for an old dog turd before voting for trumpy. I am voting early this time to make sure I don't miss the chance to vote trumpy out. BE SURE TO VOTE
    VOTE BLUE
    VOTE THE GOP OUT ON THE ENTIRE BALLOT.
    We can go after these establishment Democrats after trumpy B gone. Remember the GOP now believes that party is above all. In thier minds United States and her people come last if at all.

  45. David has the best and most realistic take on this. Basically progressives need to play the game as the rules are written today, then rewrite those rules when we are in power. As long as we keep trying to be the nice guys we will keep finishing last

  46. The system was fine before Super Tuesday.then it didn’t turn out there way. Now it’s. Rigged. Sound like someone else we know.vote republican that’s what you are

  47. Where can I find the segment where you did the analysis you are referring to when you say ‘Trump losing to Biden could be the best thing for progressives’?

  48. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb, that’s what progressives leaving the Dem Party would be. Almost every spectrum of the Dems have some gripes with the way things have panned out. I consider myself a moderate, but I wanted a woman to win and was turned off of Biden b/c I see that he’s way too cozy to the “rich.” But do you wanna have Trump again for the next 4 years? And be cynical as you will, but there’s nothing that says we won’t see SOME progressive policies enacted, yes, even under Biden. I believe the future belongs to the more progressive, the more commonsense and connection to community, and what happens may not even be called “progressive.” It will just be what needs to happen for “the most good for the most people.” Humane, respectful treatment for all, realistic wages, care for the earth, accountability of the corporate robber barons, massive overhaul of immigration policies and real healthcare that works, plus so much more. I believe it’s coming, but right now, we’ve got a nightmare in the WH by the name of Donald Trump. We must have all hands on deck and as much unity as possible. When the Dems win, the progressives can flex their muscles and fight the good fight. But for now, we gotta work together or we’re doomed.

  49. Some clarification on the Obama thing. Obama did NOT tell Buttigieg to vote for Biden. What was reported was that after Buttigieg dropped Obama told him that “ he now has leverage and should consider how to use it” This is has interpreted by some progressive online as Obama telling him to vote for Biden
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/485503-obama-spoke-with-buttigieg-after-he-dropped-out-of-2020-race-report

  50. Yup. It's time to leave the DNC. I'd love to see what kind of magic Bernie, Tulsi, Jilll Stein and Gravel could make 🤩

  51. Excellent discussion but Bernie has moved the needle, he's not just an outsider though this time his legacy is those who take up the torch, the weird thing is Warren would have given you a real foothold with progressive polocies but it had to be all in or nothing and that's just not going to happen. Bernie is too my way or the highway in terms of flexibility, a complete change on his terms a lot for everyone to take in one shot.

  52. Splitting from the democratic party will only make things even harder for progressives. It seems like a good idea on its face but if the progressives are their on party then they'll just get double teamed by both democrats and republicans. I mean what will progressives do? Their biggest supporters are the young voters and as we saw on super Tuesday they're too lazy to get out and vote. Things are hard under the democratic banner but I honestly believe it will be far worse without the banner. But that's just my opinion.

  53. Has literally anyone thought about voting for the green party under Howie Hawkins?
    He's literally the one who first proposed the Green New Deal and has a very Progressive Healthcare Plan that in some ways tops Bernie's.

  54. YES!,, Please do.. Get the Hell out of our party. I'm still obsessing over the report this morning that is was Bernie supporters voted for trump in 2016 that gave trump the White House.

    F you , you Bernie supports. F you.

  55. To answer, no we need to takeover the Democratic Party and then clean house so that the party works for the people it’s supposed to. The system is broken and money isn’t the answer, we need to get money out of politics and the politicians will start to work for the people that voted them into office. We will never get all of the corruption out of government but a fish rots from the head and we need to start fixing things at the top. Also, we need to implement term limits so we don’t get people serving thirty years in government and making laws they can then manipulate when they leave or have family use those same laws. I’m thinking three terms in the Congress and four in the house.

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