What’s The Point of Grace? feat. Point of Grace | Dinner Conversations


(upbeat country music) – A friend of mine, Paul Johnson, said to me one day he said, “Jesus saved God for me”. And I think what he meant by that is, like you said, you fell
in love with Jesus. – But then you had to figure
out what to do with God. – [Both] Yeah. – If all I knew about God
was the Old Testament, I not sure I would care for him much. (Andrew chuckles) But Jesus came along,
said, “When you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father.” And the conversation today, started out about a bible study, really. – That’s right, yeah, our
friends in Point Of Grace, Lee, Denise, and Shelly. Shelly I learned had this
really significant discovery through the Bible of grace by doing a bible study for a year. Just not doing a Bible study,
but studying the Bible alone. And so we wanted to sit down
and talk with them today. Some about growing up in the Bible Belt, talk about the Bible itself, and then talking about
discovering grace throughout life. – So let’s join the conversation. (upbeat country music) – But last year when
we did a show together, when we were on the plane ride home, this was kind of the first time, Shelly, I think you and I had actually had any conversation together, and we were talking about the Bible. I don’t even know how it came up. I don’t know if you said– – Maybe she was reading hers. – Maybe! (all laughing) – I was flying – She was reciting hers. – Well, he’s got it memorized. – That’s right, I forgot. – All– – Were you? – I always say if I
were flying on a plane, that’s probably what I’m doing. (Andrew chuckles) – We started to talk about the Bible, in our culture today,
even in church culture outside of church culture,
it’s an interesting, sometimes controversial,
I think it’s always been a bit of a controversial subjects, then inspiration of the scriptures. But you were telling me,
how in the past couple, two, three, four years, from a Bible study that really prompted kind of a change, in your perspective about the Bible. And I was interested
in what that change is, you know, did it affirm some things? Did it completely shift some of your perspectives about the Bible? – Well–
– Or did you care before that? – No, I mean I was raised in church, but I think I have a story, the same story that a lot of people have, which is, you know you go through Sunday school, and you learn all of
these different stories, like Noah, and you know, Jonah. But how they all really connect,
and tell the greater story that you’re still a part of, I think sometimes falls by the wayside. And then you get into this adult life, I mean, I remember being in Point of Grace those first years, and going, “Oh my gosh, I’m in front of all these people.” If I had to do a Bible drill,
I would be like, “Sucks.” (all laughing) Do you know what I mean? – You thought someone was
gonna ask you to do a lot? – Stop! – Where’s Habakkuk? – Right. – That’s funny. – I believe in the resurrection, all that, but like, I didn’t feel like my biblical knowledge was very good. (others murmur agreement) We did this, I kinda happened upon it, but it was the Lord, looking back, and this Bible study at
my daughter’s school, and we just did like a chronological, this is what I was telling you about, the chronological read
through of the Bible, cause it’s not exactly
in chronological order. – Right. – Close, but you know. – The way the books are in order. – Like Job would be first. – Right.
– Is that right? – Right. – You mean, what do you mean, you mean– – Historically speaking. – Okay. – Historically speaking. – So it jumps all around? – No, not much. – Not what order it was written in, right. – But what it’s actually– – No, not the order it was written in. The order in which it occurred. – Happened, timeline.
– Okay. – Historically. But that was really just
a small piece of it. It’s pretty much in order, they keep some of the stuff together, for– – Sure. – Tell us the big pieces. – But that’s not wild, you know? – No, and so, it just really, that to me, just starting at the beginning,
and kind of understanding what the purpose of the Levitical
codes, and holiness was, and that was set up, it’s kinda
like the Jews were set up. It was a great farce,
that’s what I always said. (Andrew chuckles) I never really knew the
whole story of the Jews, and the Levitical codes, and
how we can’t be that holy, and there has to be a justice scale. Just all of that, and then
that’s why we needed Christ. Like I just, the thread. – Oh yeah! – It was never really there for me. – Ooh, I like that. – You know, that thread through, and then it just awakened
my faith so much, because I’m like, the
thread’s still going. And I’m part of it. – And you’re part of it.
– Yeah. And that was really– – It’s like the Bible’s
still being written, is that what you mean? – Well, no, I mean, I think
it’s been done, but God’s story. – God’s story
– For sure, my part in it. – It’s to be part of our lives, right, through our experiences.
– Absolutely. – So the thread thing, that kind of is what we’ve talked about, how we filter, somebody– – And it’s a red thread,
blood of the Lord Jesus. (others murmur agreement) That, amen, I like that. – I’m feelin’ a song! (Andrew laughs) I’m feelin’ a song coming on! (upbeat country music) – We were told we can have relationship, and I believe I do–
– Yeah. – Through Christ. – But you, I mean, what’s that look like, a relationship with God,
how do you get there? How would you tell someone to
have a relationship with God? – So, I think it’s challenging. I think Jews in general
struggle with that, cause not having an intermediary, I’ve got a good friend who’s a minister, and she’s like yeah, Jesus is my buddy, I’m like, wouldn’t that be nice? (Andrew chuckles) – Yeah. – You know, that sounds great. So Jews tend to, I think, at least in America these days,
talk less about God. I think the way we have relationship with God is by following commandments in the Bible, in the Torah. – Okay. – There’s a famous passage,
“Just as I am merciful, you should be merciful to your fellows.” So, a lot of it ends up manifesting, I think, through action toward others. There’s of course prayer, which
is a pretty central piece, and that I think for a lot
of Jews, it’s challenging. – Why is it hard? – Well you’re talking, but
no one ever talks back. – Oh, okay. – So the mysterious nature of God. – At least for me, I’m
having a whole conversation, but, you don’t ever know
if you got a response. – Well that’s true. – That’s true for anything. – God’s never spoken to me
audibly, or anything like that. I’ve seen nothing, Pentecostals they get all the miracles,
Baptists, we get nothin’. – Uh huh. – We have to walk by faith. (gentle guitar strumming) – If you see a thread of
Jesus, which is, I think, as New Testament Christians,
that’s who we most closely identify with, in our
relationship with God. – Sure! – Because Jesus is– – Sure. – We know it all relates to God. – Right, so if you see
that thread throughout, then it kind of opens this egregious, more generous way of reading, right? – Totally. – So the Old Testament, though, that’s where everyone gets, Mark you said, what about the Old Testament? – I said, you know, my mother could keep the law better than anybody, and I could break it better than anybody. (all laughing) I needed grace, and to me sometimes, if you look at the Old Testament, without the lens of
Jesus, to look through it, – Mm-hmm. – It’ll make you mean,
even the Bible itself, says of itself, “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” Correct? (murmurs in agreement) So I think that it just
looked to me like sometimes, I’d tell mom, “It looks
like God was in a bad mood.” – Mood, yes!
– Yes, right? – Until Jesus showed up. – Okay well here’s a
question based on that, then. Which I, I think your head’s gonna spin. – Wuh-oh. (Steve laughs) – Is it possible that God, okay, so He’s all-knowing, all-powerful, but to be all-powerful,
someone explained it to me in this way, for anything
to be all-powerful, He must be able to also limit Himself. If you can’t limit yourself, then you’re not actually
powerful over yourself, right, so maybe part of
God’s limitation was Jesus. Like, He put on skin, He
limited His omniscience, and all-powerfulness to
be able to relate to us, okay, that’s where I’m going with it. – ‘kay.
– ‘kay. But is it possible that
God in the Old Testament, bad mood God–
– Oh dear. (Andrew chuckles) Is it possible that, He could actually evolve in an effort to be real-time? Instead of create everything
and just let it spin, so that we’re just puppets, is He actually living in time and space? You know, because we see these
things in the Old Testament, where it does seem, I’m not
saying this is what happened, seems God is a bit flexible, even if– – Well He repented that
He made man on the earth, that’s in there, that looks
like He changed His mind. – Which I don’t think I– – But do we really understand
what He was saying? – Well I don’t think that it means that He repented that He made man, I believe that He
repented that He made man on the earth, cause it said He did. But what does that mean to Him? And also could it mean, that here He is, He’s God, He sends satan
to earth to keep him here, when the angels fell, and then He decides to plant His crowning creation
in the middle of a war zone. Us. – So perhaps He repented putting us– – Here.
– in the middle. – Who knows? But He does say, whatever
repentance is to God, said that He divorced
Israel, in Jeremiah 3. God went through a divorce, God couldn’t pastor a Baptist church. (laughs) He’s been through things
we’ve been through. So He can relate. Even the Old Testament, I
think He was trying to relate. – Oh, yeah. – Oh! – So finally, and I don’t
think He came to Himself, I think He knew before the
foundation of the world. So I would disagree with you,
– I would say so. I do not believe God is evolving. – I believe He is who He is.
– I believe the revelation of God is like a crescendo, and we are learning who He really is, and it apexes in Jesus. – Mm-hmm. – Moses learned there was
one God, that was big news, and he got some things
right, and some things wrong. He said, “An eye for an eye,
and a tooth for a tooth.” Well, back in that day,
you knock out my teeth, I’d go kill your whole family. So he made it equitable. And then Jesus comes
along finally and says, “No, you’ve heard it said, an eye for an eye, but I tell you.” And Jesus trumps the Old Testament. Jesus trumps Moses, and
He’s got the better way, the best way, forgive, love. – When you say Jesus
trumps the Old Testament, I actually like to think of it as He fulfills the Old Testament. – Right
– Yeah. – I like that better than. – Because a lot of people
these days, will try to go, “The law is gone, and it doesn’t matter.” The moral law never went away. – Right
– The what? – The moral law. The ceremonial law is gone. – We can eat shrimp.
– Yes! – We can eat shrimp! (laughs) Ceremonial law, He came to break the ties of the ceremonial law,
but a lot of people– – We can mix our clothing. – Try to mix the ceremonial law, and the moral law together,
does that make sense? – Yeah, what is the moral law? – I’m just saying, anything
that has to do with the heart. – Liking shrimp has nothing
to do with the heart. – If you look at the Ten Commandments– – Ten Commandments is the moral. – And I heard a pastor say the other day, and I really loved this, and
I guess I’ve known this but, the Israelites, they had been
living with Egyptian rule. They did not know moral codes, I mean Egyptians, you cut people– – Murder them. – You murder, who cares,
live the way you wanna live. So nobody knows, and
so that grace, that law that He put in, it was His to go, don’t murder, hey y’all,
don’t murder one another. Hey, love your neighbor, be kind. That’s not mean, it’s– – The law was a babysitter
until Jesus could show up. – Yes! – But we look at His
laws like, He’s so harsh. – I think–
– There’s only ten! But then Moses came
along and added 611 more. (laughs) – Well, “love the Lord your God, with all your heart, and soul, mind.” If just do that, you’re following it. – Was that the origin of legalism, then? When Moses added all those? – Oh we’re always been
trying to back under the law. We love rules. – We love– – Are you talking about Levitical codes? – I’m talking about the 613 laws– – The Levitical codes, the shrimp. – Yeah, I don’t know what code it is– – Yeah. – But I do know that God
gave him ten on the mountain. Then Jesus had an eleventh
one before He left, a new command I give you,
not love your neighbor as yourself, because
He’d already said that, but as I have loved
you, will you love your, because He realized after working with humans for 3 years,
we don’t love ourselves. So He backed up, and said,
Okay, as I have loved you.” And He said, “This is a new command.” This is number 11. Somebody should have written that down. (gentle music) – Dinner Conversations is
presented by Project Beautiful. – [Voiceover] I have so
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to meet the recruiter. We purchased my tickets to the border. (Indian music) What am I doing? I’m traveling to a country
I’ve never visited, for job I don’t know how to do, that was arranged by a man I just met. Desperation makes you do crazy things. (intense Indian music) (rewinding sounds) I’m almost at the border,
and a woman stops me. She separates me from the man
who I think is helping me. I’m nervous, I’m confused. She asks me if I know the man I’m with. I say, “No, he’s a stranger.” Then they ask him how he knows me. He says, “She’s my cousin.” This scares me. She tells me stories of girls like me, who were tricked, and the bad
things people did to them. I don’t want that to happen to me. She helps me get back home. What if the woman at the border had not been there to stop me? Where would I be right now? – If you go to
projectbeautiful.org/dinnerconversations you can find out how to partner with us in bringing home vulnerable lives today. – If we don’t help, who will? Project Beautiful, because every life is beautiful and worth fighting for. (single piano note) – Do you divide the laws like that? – No, we don’t. – They’re all under one– – Yeah, it is a debate, but in general, Judaism says, they actually
have a number 613 commandments. (Andrew blows raspberry) – There are 613. – And they’re all equal,
and we distinguish. One way to break it
down is between positive and negative commandments, meaning you shall, and you shalt not. So, there’s lots of
things that you should do, celebrate the holidays, all that stuff, which is so much a part of Judaism, and the calendar is barely
covered in the Ten Commandments. – So isn’t interesting
that we, Christianity, is so into this grace, the
freedom that we receive through grace, and we are
so stiff about some things. – And they show it. – We don’t know how to celebrate our spirituality, we really don’t. I think we know in reverence, I think we sometimes through liturgy, just like any tradition,
but as far as like, in just relationally, I don’t
know if we fully understand. You know, we hate to
drink, like everything that’s good about that,
that comes from the earth, and we can’t stand a bardego. – Well that’s in Judaism, it’s like no, wine is here, wine is
at every celebration, because it’s meant to
be a conduit for joy. – It is. – Oh sure, that’s under–
– Trust me. (laughs) – Every ceremony, that’s the most, that how you start Shabbat,
with a blessing over wine. – Well Jesus turned water into wine, Baptists turned it into grape juice. (clicks tongue) – Shame. (Andrew chuckles) – It is a shame. (country music) – So many of my friends,
and so many of our friends grew up with this major
toxicity of scripture, where it was used to brow beat. It was used to manipulate and control. How do we help those friends? And do we help even ourselves, because I still use
scripture against myself. How do we take out, what I always say, take out the mom and
dad issues, so take it, go work on your issues with mom and dad, so that we can rediscover God for who is, and what He’s saying. How do you do that? – So the first question is what? (laughs) – Well what your experience has been, with your history on the Bible is. – I did grow up, and I’m very grateful. I did not grow up resenting church, I loved my foundation of church, and our youth group was
great, and all of that. But still, I still somehow feel like I missed it along the way. I still wanted to be that good girl. Like I worked so hard
to be that good girl, This is what it looks like
to be a good Christian girl. And again, we like the rules. Like, I want you to tell me how I think, how I should think, what I should do. – It’s more tangible. – I can do that. But to deal with that, my
jealousy of somebody else. I just need to be a good
girl and do these things. Even though looking back, I
had a relationship with Christ, and a sweet one, I still
for the longest time, until literally my 40s, did I deal with this is what it looks like, I
worked so hard to do it right. I guess God’s gracious,
because in your 40s, you start like, I don’t know, in 20s, 30s, you’re
young, you can like do it, and then in the 40s, everything just starts falling apart a little bit. You know, you can’t quite handle all the balls that you’re
juggling, and stuff, so at that point I began
to really deal with, okay, why am I so upset with myself, and all that stuff, and I came to realize that somehow, I had added rules. Jesus loves me period. – Yeah. – For the Bible tells me so. First song I ever sang, but somewhere along the way, I put– – He loves me if. – If I do this. – If I look this way,
He thinks nicer of me, and I wanna please Him,
and people-pleaser. I just finally came to
rest with, “He loves me.” As I’ve done that, scripture for me has become so much sweeter. Because I know the tone of voice, and maybe it’s having teenagers– (others murmur agreement) I love my teenagers. It’s the tone of voice, like
I read something that says, “May the words of your
mouth and meditation of your heart be pleasing to me.” Where I used to be,
“Okay, I gotta zip it up.” It’s like, no, sweetie, if
you were kind to people, if you don’t say what you want to to your husband sometimes, if
you’ll choose to not say that, you’re choosing life in that relationship. When you look at these
little things along the way, it says, “Parents don’t
aggravate your children.” And sometimes I go “Ahh, my teenager!” I just keep nagging away at him. (laughs) I’m nagging away! And God’s just going, look,
I’m showing you right here, just ease off a little and show– – He’s a lot nicer than they told us. – Yes! (banjo music) ♪ Wake up to the sunlight ♪ ♪ With your windows open ♪ ♪ Don’t hold in your anger
or leave things unspoken ♪ ♪ And wear your red dress ♪ ♪ Use your good dishes ♪ ♪ Make a big mess and
make lots of wishes ♪ ♪ And have what you want ♪ ♪ But want what you have ♪ ♪ And don’t spend your life lookin’ back ♪ ♪ Turn up the music ♪ ♪ Turn it up loud ♪ ♪ Take a few chances ♪ ♪ Let it all out ♪ ♪ Cause you won’t regret it ♪ ♪ Lookin’ back from where you have been ♪ ♪ Cause it’s not who you knew ♪ ♪ And it’s not what you did ♪ ♪ It’s how you live ♪ ♪ So go to the ballgames ♪ ♪ And go to the ballet ♪ ♪ And go see your folks more
than just on the holidays ♪ ♪ Kiss all your children ♪ ♪ And dance with your wife ♪ ♪ Tell your husband you
love him every night ♪ ♪ Don’t run from the truth ♪ ♪ Cause you can’t get away ♪ ♪ No, no ♪ ♪ And just face it and you’ll be okay ♪ ♪ Turn up the music ♪ ♪ Turn it up loud ♪ ♪ Take a few chances ♪ ♪ Let it all out ♪ ♪ Cause you won’t regret it ♪ ♪ Lookin’ back from where you have been ♪ ♪ It’s not who you knew ♪ ♪ It’s not what you did ♪ ♪ It’s how you lived ♪ ♪ And love wherever you are
and wherever you’ve been ♪ ♪ Now is the time to begin ♪ ♪ So give to the needy ♪ ♪ And pray for the grieving ♪ ♪ E’en when you don’t think that you can ♪ ♪ Cause all that you do is
bound to come back to you ♪ ♪ So think of your fellow man ♪ ♪ Make peace with God and
make peace with yourself ♪ ♪ Cause in the end there’s nobody else ♪ ♪ Turn up the music ♪ ♪ Turn it up loud ♪ ♪ Take a few chances ♪ ♪ Let it all out ♪ ♪ Cause you won’t regret it ♪ ♪ Lookin’ back from where you have been ♪ ♪ Cause it’s not who you knew ♪ ♪ And it’s not what you did ♪ ♪ It’s how you live ♪ ♪ Oh it’s not who you knew ♪ ♪ it’s not what you did ♪ ♪ It’s how we live ♪ ♪ Ooh ♪ (upbeat music) – Dinner Conversations is
presented by Project Beautiful. Did you know for only $30 dollars a month, you can save three people a year from sex-trafficking around the world. Just think, if this was your daughter, wouldn’t you be glad someone is spending $30 dollars a month to get her home? Go to
projectbeautiful.org.dinnerconversations and join Andrew and me, as we try to stop sex-trafficking in the world today. – If we don’t help, who will? Project Beautiful, because every life is beautiful, and worth fighting for. – I used to say growing
up, I didn’t know anybody that didn’t know Jesus, and loved Jesus, and lived for Jesus, and
had Him in their heart. I didn’t know anybody. – Yeah. – So I would say for me, the scripture, I still would go back to the fact that as far as understanding,
just that whole thread of God moving, God being
revealed through my life, it’s still, even to this day, something was revealed to me
today through His scripture. – Was it when we were talking? – Yeah. – She said the scripture. (Andrew laughs) – You know, I also, you talked about, I wasn’t a wife 35 years
ago, so the dripping, and nagging in Proverbs,
I didn’t know how, that scripture didn’t come to life for me until it was my experience. I was a dripping faucet,
I drove my husband crazy. (laughs) – Drip, drip, drip. – So the scripture comes to life as it’s a part of your experience. For me, for me, when I had the courage to share a part of my story to my family, and they exuded God’s grace,
ah grace was woken up in me. – Really? – Oh my gosh, I walked different, I spoke different, I lived different, because I never saw the
hand, the feet, the eyes, the arms of God’s grace, until the lies were released, truth was revealed, and what truth brought me was grace. (country music) – Do you mind defining grace? I’ll tell you, for
Jews, it’s not a concept that is particularly
important, or resonates. We talk a lot about gratitude,
that’s what actually– – To God, or is it? – Yeah but like, the word
Jew comes from Judah, which the name comes from being grateful. But grace is actually not something. – It’s not a concept. – It’s not a concept that comes up a lot. So I’d love, and I know it comes up a lot in the Christian world. – Well, grace and mercy, the
definitions of grace and mercy. Is it mercy, God, this is
very elementary, and basic. Isn’t mercy, withholding what we deserve, and grace is giving us
more than we deserve. That’s a very basic way to apply those terms to other things. – It’s like when a police
officer pulls you over, he doesn’t give you a ticket, he gives you an ice cream cone. – Right, right, so that’s grace? (Andrew laughs) – So that’s grace? – That’s grace. – Yeah it’s like literally offering you something that you need to earn. – Right. So that’s what we, and it’s all filtered in my experience,
through the work of Jesus dying for our sins to save
us, to offer us salvation. And what is salvation? For me, that’s being offered
back into relationship with, reconciling us back
to God in spite of our sin. So grace, that’s all grace to me, because I don’t believe that
I could’ve done anything in my own flesh, there’s
nothing I could’ve done, in my understanding to attain God, to reconcile, to bridge that gap. Here’s God, Most Holy God, here’s me, sinful Andrew, but created by God, to be in relationship with God. So then grace is what is
the connective tissue. – Hm. – And we tend to believe
that people are created good, and have their faculties,
and strengths and weaknesses, and maybe have challenges that
they can overcome, or not. But it isn’t that you’re
starting from a place of sin. – There was an original sin,
there was original virtue. In the Garden of Eden,
they were virtuous, right? There was before sin. – Right. – And sin is infected,
we were infected with it. (bluegrass music) – You know, we’re all walking
in all the light we have. – I love that you said that
earlier, that was great. – And you can’t walk in
a light you don’t have. That’s what helped me forgive my mother for not keeping up on the grace issue. – Mm-hmm. – She said, “When I get into Heaven, I’m a go crawling in
on my hands and knees.” I said, “Not me, I’m kicking the door in. And say, ain’t y’all glad I’m home?” (all laugh) And she said, “If I get a crown I’m a lay it at His feet.” I said, “Not me, I’m trying mine on.” (all laugh) How rude, momma. So you go to a party, someone
hands you a party hat, and you throw it at their feet? – Right, right. – Being facetious. – But that’s a reception of grace. – But I will evermore give God the glory. – Dal loved that, yeah. – I remember one time we were leaving the Gayford concert you had all this out. We were leaving the Gayford concert, and I had already pushed the buttons. I knew what buttons to push with her, and they’re all theological. All. – Lethoria or your mom? – My mother.
– Okay. – We never argued about
anything but the Bible, we loved the same God, you
couldn’t agree who He was. Really, I mean, on His temperament. – Uh-huh. – I don’t know what I said,
she finally swung around and looked at me, and
said, “Are you even saved?” (laughs) And we were not even
out of the parking lot, and this wail came up in me,
I never experienced it before, and it was falling out of my
eyes, and I couldn’t stop it, and I said, “Momma, I have loved Him since the day you told me His name, and if He sends me to hell, I’ll go there praising His name because that will be where I fit in the best.” Cause He’s always had my
best interest at heart, and I’ll praise Him, because
I trust Him that much. I believe I think I do. I haven’t got to that point where I would, He said, “Mark go to hell.” And, “Whoop, thank you, praise the Lord.” (all laugh) No, I don’t know. You know, that might hyperbole, I do tend to live in hyperbole
a lot, but I trust Him. – There’s a surrender and true surrender. – Anybody who loves you enough to die for you, is on your side. – Right
– That’s right. – And I don’t fear Him. – I’ve heard somebody
say, “The older I get, the more I realize how far
apart I am from Jesus.” As far as understanding Him,
because He reveals Himself, and He reveals Himself,
and we just realize, “Oh my God, how did I that?” Or, “Thank you for your gentleness.” The fruits of the Spirit,
He wants us to have them because it makes a difference. When you’re gentle towards someone, when you have self-control towards that sweet man I’ve been
married to almost 25 years. We should know better, we really should. – But give yourself grace too. – But I can give myself grace, I can wash this, in
some nice Tide or Gain, whatever, new day, and
everything’s a-okay. – His mercies are new every morning. – And I’m thankful. – Cause we wear them out every day. (laughs) – We just (claps) need it. – Sometimes by 2 or 3 o’ clock. – Yeah. (laughs) – Then you gotta go sit in
the corner ’til morning. (laughs) – This is sunset. – I say, it was all
about legalism at first, but it was great, I didn’t know anything. I had a momma who loved
to sing, and loved God. But there were a lot of rules
I’d hear preachers preach 1 Corinthians 11:14, “Doth
not even nature itself, teach you to shame for
man to have long hair?” (laughs) That was one we memorized like John 3:16. (laughs) I wonder why God gave His chosen people, I’d have given them Hawaii. (laughs) I mean, you know, if I was gonna give my kids something, it’d be Hawaii. (laughs) – How are we gonna get to Hawaii? (laughs) – [Both] How are they gonna get there? (country music)

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  1. I will really look forward to watching this — at home, after work, where it won't be echoing through the office as it did when I tried to get it to stop playing. 😳 Apparently I touched a wrong button! The iPhone 7+ has a hair trigger on it somewhere, and it is LOUD!!!

  2. What nonsense! Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The idea of God of the OT being mean and that of the NT being full of Grace, setting them in opposition merely shows people who've never read the Bible, IMNSHO. This 2 God idea is anathema to the simplest of Elementary Heb. 6:1 Christianity. I think it does point out the lack of total Biblical knowledge specifically how bad children have been taught. It sort of reminds me of the horrible book and horribly written book called What's so Amazing about Grace by the CT dude.

  3. I really like this. I always thought point of grace was a little too high and mighty. Just experience I had with them when I was younger. But I really liked what they had to say.

  4. I love what Mark said, "He's a lot nicer than what we were told".   Could relate to that.    Loved this topic.  Thank you Mark.  Blessings.  ♥♥♥

  5. Mark, I had the same experience with my mother. She questioned my salvation in a fit of frustration when I was in high school. I haven't forgotten it, and it has led to doubts about my own salvation in my life. It is so hard not to let what people say in frustration to affect you in the long-term.

  6. Ya'll! God separation began with Eve and Adam's sinful nature, which began the struggle, where He said he is above – instead of the walk on earth together – which was his plan , to commune with his creation – but they sinned! so God isn't evolving etc… and he was mad at creation over the OT period of time because of how ugly and nasty people were, it broke his heart – therefore he had Jesus as the propitiation for us all… (and we are still ugly and nasty in this crazy upside down world – thanks to Satan – that ugly enemy!)

  7. Christians should not drink wine as the non believers do. Otherwise, where is the point of difference? Proverbs 20:1 says Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

  8. God put Man on the earth to torment satan with the power and authority of Heaven through Jesus! Adam had authority over the earth, then he gave his power away when he ate the fruit. Jesus came and gave us back the authority in order to destroy the works of the enemy in Jesus’ name by His SPIRIT! This is why we can lay hands on the sick and they will recover, why we can raise the dead and cast out demons in Jesus’ name! It’s real folks! Christians are doing all of this today! Get on board!!!💥💥💥 It’s the Power of GOD! We are Christians- which mean little Christ-like ones! Do you see what God did to bring torment to satan??? Now let’s go destroy hell for a living💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

  9. Jesus said in John 5 that the Scriptures spoke of Him. He is saying that He is the thread in what we gentiles call the Old Testament. From Genesis 3:15 where we see the first announcement of the seed of the woman, to Malachi's pronouncement that Elijah would return before the coming of the Lord ie Jesus then Jesus is the thread. In the New Testament Jesus said in John 8:58 Before Abraham was born I AM. He was claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. One thing we have to remember is that many of the Old Testament Laws were written for Israel and not the Church. This is not to mean there was no grace in the Old Testament. Isaiah 1 God says, "Come let us reason together says the Lord. Though your sins are as red as scarlet, I will make them white as snow." That is grace which is offered to the people of the nation. What we struggle with today is understanding that God deals with a nation far different than he does the Church. His purposes are different. His way of relating is far different. But He is the same God and there is grace,mercy, and the call is on everyone He calls.

  10. I love Jesus, Methodist Church, you and chocolate cake with caramel, sandwiches with butter and lamb,pops,and delicious moments together the Christians!love my protestant lifestyle

  11. I like the conversation with Rabbi Finkelstein, and I hope he will keep seeking the truth. If he keeps searching in the law and prophets, he will find Jesus the Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach). The promises of Him are all through the law and especially the prophets. Isaiah 53 is probably the most obvious reference to Jesus but there are thousands and they all lead to Jesus being born of the tribe of Judah, in the line of David, in the town of Bethlehem Ephrathah during the time of the Roman Empire, that He was to be rejected by His own people, condemned to death but put in a rich man's grave, resurrected on the third day, to justify all who come to Him.
    Mr. Finkelstein mentioned trying to know God through obeying the law, but he needs to know that while obedience to God is very important, Abraham did not reach God through the law. God asked Abraham to follow Him and to go wherever He sent him, and Abraham believed God and obeyed Him (not His law, but HIM!) This was counted to Abraham as righteousness. He was justified before there was a law to obey.
    And the law of Moses requires that every tiny little part be perfectly obeyed OR ELSE. If we break one part of the law, the entire law is broken. As Job said, we HAVE to have a mediator. We cannot be saved from death without the sacrificed Lamb. When Jesus died at Passover, He fulfilled the law once and for all. The man who knew no sin BECAME sin (just as the blood of the passover lamb painted on the door saved the Israelites from the death angel).
    The universal law says that if you sin you die. Sin brings death, just as it did with Adam and Eve. Jesus had no sin, BUT He died. He took away the curses because death had no right to Him. Jesus's resurrection from the dead is OUR resurrection from death.
    Hallelujah!

  12. As someone who loves anime and Japanese culture hearing Mark so confidently say Gods involvement in our life is like a RED THREAD was like a lightning bolt moment. Not only that but it mentions threads and God a number of times in the Bible, thinking of that in light of the way the Japanese see 'the red thread of fate' but replacing what's said about the romantic partners with the Song of Solomon version of God reaching out to us, that's really powerful.

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